On Improv for Healing & Community
In this episode of Out of Session with Kindman & Co., Logan Kim sits down with improviser, facilitator, and creator Shannon Stott to explore how improvisation can serve as a profound tool for personal healing, deepened self-awareness, and community connection. Shannon, founder of Improv On and Off the Stage, shares how playful, low-stakes exercises can help people get in touch with their bodies, express themselves freely, and find meaningful connection. Together, they unpack themes like vulnerability, identity, embodiment, and what it means to make intentional choices — both on stage and in everyday life. This conversation brings to life the transformational potential of improv as both a practice and philosophy for being human.
Exploring the Therapeutic Value of Improv
Podcast Host/Narrator: You're listening to Out of Session with Kindman & Co., a Feelings Forward podcast where we leave our therapist selves at the door and have messy, real conversations about being human. Today's episode is a conversation between Logan and Shannon Stott, the creator of Improv On and Off the Stage, Shannon shares how improv can be a powerful tool for healing, self awareness and connection. From queer community spaces like Know Other Fest to simple practices that help us tune into our bodies, this episode is about finding presence, play, and possibility, even in the most unexpected places. Here's their conversation.
Logan Kim: Shannon, hi. It's so good to see you and talk to you again.
Shannon Stott: Hi, Logan. How are you?
Logan Kim: I'm doing okay. I'm really excited for this conversation we're about to have. I'm a little bit nervous. I never know what's gonna happen, and I'm not one to record podcasts often, but also very grateful that you've gifted me some of your time, some of your energy. So really feeling grateful to be here with you right now. How are you doing?
Shannon Stott: Yeah, same. So, so much gratitude. And especially you said just like you're grateful for me to gift time to you, but really, this is a thing that we have done for each other. You really gifted me your time. We're, like, jumping right in. But you gifted me your time with the Know Other Fest when we did our. When I did my workshop, and it was really amazing just to have your presence in there, just to make sure that people were really feeling that they could release and be themselves. And so you brought that energy. And so, like, for me, I'm like, yes, you have that energy of just caring and holding space. So you be nervous all you want, but you make me feel very calm.
Logan Kim: Okay, well, I'm glad. And so much gratitude because I. And I won't stay on the gratitude train too long because I think that can never end. But, you know, and we'll get into it. But so many of the workshops that you put on that I was there for, and just you putting that energy to it meant a lot to me and I still think about a lot of it today. So I'm hopefully hoping that we can get into a little bit of that for everybody who is not yet in on what we're talking about, just a little bit about us and what we're going to talk about today. I'm Logan. My pronouns are they, them. I'm a therapist here at Kindman & Co., and I'm here with Shannon Stott, who is the creator of Improv on and off the stage. A company that uses improv as a healing practice. Shannon has 25 plus years of global experience helping people connect to themselves, to others, and to community, all through the transformational practice at Improv. And I was so lucky to get to experience some of that. About, what is it? A month and a half ago now?
Shannon Stott: I know it feels like it was just. It feels so long and so short ago.
Logan Kim: Time flies. So we're going to talk a little bit today about our experience. I met Shannon at Know Other festival, which is a queer camping and wellness experience created for the lgbtq, women, trans and gender, expansive identities. That was such a great space to have the honor to step into. We'll talk a little bit about that experience, talk a little bit about Shannon's workshops and what that was like, what we did, some of our takeaways of that, what went into that, and some of Shannon's background with using improv as a tool for healing and what makes her passionate about all of that. Do you have anything that you want to add to that?
Shannon Stott: We're probably going to talk a little bit about you and what you do and why we're intersecting. Just to put it out there, it's not all about me. I love all about me. But people also need to know why we're here together.
Logan Kim: That's true. That's true. I was also part of no other festival. And so we'll touch on why I was there and what that was all about.
Shannon Stott: Yes, yes. Let's. Let's. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Logan Kim: Let's go. Okay. All right, so first, you know, like I mentioned, we met at no other festival. I know I shared a little bit about it. To be honest, I pulled that straight off the website. Is there anything you would. I know you've been involved with this festival for a bit now. Anything you would add to that description?
Using Improv to Build Trust & Community
Shannon Stott: Since its inception, I've been involved in that festival, and my entryway is Yinka Freeman. So Yinka Freeman has created Know Other fest. And really, that festival is a testament to what can be for queer people in general. Right. The idea that a space is for us out there in the world where we can practice who we want to be in different forms is huge. And really, she brought me in because in my own practice, that's what I am doing. The idea that we can practice who we are and who we want to be in improv is really important to me. And getting that opportunity out there in the woods, away from prying eyes. Right. Or even Just eyes that are like, loving to us but always on us. Right when we are in the practice of becoming. When we're stepping, I like to talk about stepping. Stepping or being on the precipice of change when we're right there. Sometimes even the people we love or who are close to us can sway that transformation or just be inside of it. Like not, I don't want to say muddy it or murk, make it murky, but really we take a lot of time to give energy to our loved ones and sometimes we don't give that energy to ourselves. So that festival really provides us with a moment to give energy and focus on us and who we're trying to be.
Logan Kim: I know it's kind of. It was kind of an amazing space to be in. I mean, we were out in the Jacumpa Hot Springs area. So first of all, just to be in that. That nature like that. But I don't know that I've experienced a whole lot of queer spaces, especially days long experiences really. So away from kind of the heteronormative world like that, especially that weren't, you know, nightlife related. We don't have a whole lot of spaces like that.
Shannon Stott: Correct. And it's a big deal. You said days on end, like, not only like the idea that it's one day after the other, but the full length of a day. And so you get. And night. Right. And so you get this time to settle into your body, to see other people settle into their bodies and then really quick, like sort of emerge actually as yourself that you like. You get this little, oh, I see that person wearing the thing or speaking in the way or saying the thing or being free. I want to be free. I want to wear my thing. And you get that immersive experience to do that and to see what it really feels like to be that version of yourself, which is so big, Logan. Because when you get to do that, you carry it back. I'm not sure about. I feel like you. You were saying some of the things that we did in my workshop you still carry.
Logan Kim: Yeah.
Improv, Identity, & Queer Liberation
Shannon Stott: And that feeling of the, of the festival when you get to feel like, oh, no, this is what it feels like to be fully in my queerness, in my power, in my heritage. Oh, okay. I can put that in my body and I can take it back home. So when I'm feeling lost or disconnected, I really have a memory of what it feels like to connect to self.
Logan Kim: Yeah. That was something that really stood out to me that I felt like you really emphasized at Your workshops, whether it was the healing through play or even the water aerobics. And I think about that still because there's obviously. I mean, it feels remiss to not acknowledge the context of. We're recording this. It's around the end of mid. End of June. There's a lot happening in the world, a lot happening in this country. Just a lot happening. And it really does become easy to get sucked back into the kind of normal, normalcy of absurdity, of everything that life is. And I'm remembering some of the words that you said of remembering the feeling of the water and remembering this feeling of making your choices. And it's such a great reminder to stay present. And I also love what you said about seeing that person wearing that thing and then being inspired to wear your thing and just seeing everybody over the course of days. And it's that community aspect of it that felt like it stood out to me the most, I think to be around. There were hundreds. Is that right? Hundreds of people that showed up, running into the same person that I did the Happe ceremony with the day before. I'm seeing them now at the pool, and we're checking in with each other. And I think the first day that I was there, in that morning where I attended your workshop, I remember you connecting with somebody who you hadn't remembered from a previous year.
Shannon Stott: Right.
Logan Kim: And that was so cool and so special that you remembered each other. And it just felt like this automatic thing. And I thought that was really beautiful.
Shannon Stott: It is. It's because the festival has gone through so many iterations, but community has stayed with it. People really have made friendships and connections and relationships out of that festival. And it's just really beautiful to. To see. And, you know, you said you saw me connect with someone, that I wonder if there's a way, like what there is power in seeing actually being, bearing witness to relationships happening. Right. When you see two people, like, oh, we remember each other from a previous festival, it inspires you even more to go out and create those connections for yourself. And it's such a spider web of joy. It's such a spider web of joy. Yeah, but like, we're, you know, we're talking about that deeper joy like you and I are talking about it. And that deeper joy really is the thing that you're talking about, which is carrying it into, or rather out of the festival and into real. In quotes, real life. Right?
Logan Kim: Yeah.
Shannon Stott: Because you really have to have. You have to experience something like that in order to reach back in your mental memory and your body memory to bring it, to bring it up and to refind and reconnect with the confidence that you found, or the love or the joy, or the sensuality or the play. There has to be an experience that you had in order to recreate it in your life, to have it, you know?
Logan Kim: Yeah, I had an experience, a great experience. I'm noticing we're talking about meeting at that, that workshop and all these things, and maybe we've skipped a few steps on sharing with anyone who might be listening what our roles were at that festival and why, why we were, why we met up at that workshop.
How Improvisation Heals: Somatic Awareness & Play
Shannon Stott: We're doing. We're just reminiscing, you know. So I was brought in for three reasons. Did I do all three? I did a workshop, I did a show, and I did. Oh, that's right. I did my show and I did a water aerobics class. And so my company is improv on and off the stage. We facilitate healing. We run healing workshops. And the, the modality that we use is improv. And I use improv because it's fun, it's playful, um, and it's a vulnerable space to be. And when we're connecting with self, when we're really trying to figure out who we are, who we want to be, who we're even like imagining that we could be, you know, just like not even I want to be that person or that version of myself, but I wonder what that version of myself looks like. All of that type of play, all that type of curiosity comes up in improv and it's, let's see, couched. It's covered in play, it's covered in character, right? Oh, we're just, we're building a character over here, or we're building a scene, or we are playing a silly game, but really what we're doing is we're reaching into ourselves in that character building or we are telling our actual stories, bringing our heritage to the stage when we build a scene. Or we are figuring out what relationships matter to us and what relationships have impacted us when we play a one to one person partnership game, right? All of these things are what we're actually doing. But the improv masks it, makes it fun. Like, oh, yeah, I'm just playing this silly game. But then when we sit and we start to debrief what that game brought up for us, we see that it brought up a lot more than just funny space aliens.
Logan Kim: I know I had so much fun. I know I had the. I was very lucky to be able to not Only be the attending support, but participate in your Healing Through Play workshop and I'll share a little bit about why I was there and why I was the attending support. So we were able to show up as some mental health kind of specialists just to support anybody who needed a process or needed help grounding or if anything came up at the festival this year, there were a handful of workshops that we were assigned to just be attending support for anyone that might bring up a little bit more. And I got to participate, Shannon, in your Healing Through Play workshop first. And initially, I was just in it. I was just having a good time. We were playing all these fun games. We were getting into our bodies, and it was so surprising initially, but also really cool to see what came up in the debrief, the things that you shared about some of the intentions behind some of the exercises, the things that came up for other people, what we noticed about playing together, but about interacting, I remember about making choices. And it was such a great time. And it was also this really experiential way to learn about ourselves and being in the world.
Shannon Stott: Right. So I'm going to ground these thoughts because we're talking esoterically and if you're listening and wondering, what did you do? I want to do that. So two of the things that we ended up doing, right, were one exercise was we just raised our hands, we closed our eyes, and we sat and listened to our breath. The world, the environment around us, just people walking back and forth. And the idea is, every time you feel a sensation, whether that sensation is a thought, the wind, you hear something, you feel grass on your legs, whatever it is, you raise your hand and then you put it down, right? And that's the exercise. And we do that for two minutes maybe. And so we do that with our eyes closed. And then we do it the same exercise with our eyes open. And that's it. That's the exercise. You raise your hand, you put it down, you raise your hand, you put it down. And what we found. Well, actually, we found a lot. Do you remember this exercise?
Logan Kim: I remember this exercise. And in fact, I will put it on the record that I've borrowed this exercise from you and I'm using it occasionally in my couples therapy sessions.
Shannon Stott: Yes. See, this is what I said. Okay, so you talk. Talk a little bit about what came, if you don't mind. What came up for you, what you found. How did that exercise make you feel? And. Yeah. What did it bring up for you?
Logan Kim: Yeah, I'm remembering. I'm remembering back. And I Remember that we all shared a little bit of a different perspective. For me, I'm remembering initially not raising my hand as much, but when we opened our eyes, when I saw somebody else raise their hand, it almost felt like it gave me permission to check in with my body and raise my hand when I felt something. But I also remember that there were some folks that were able to tune into their bodies more with their eyes closed. So that was something that was interesting to me, that for everyone, it's a little bit different. And I think it felt a little meditative in a way. Felt a little self conscious in a way. Like, ooh, I'm raising my hand, people know I'm having a sensation, I'm feeling something. And just feeling that really togetherness when everyone was feeling together. I guess for me.
Shannon Stott: Yeah, we talked a lot about in that particular exercise what it means to be connected to self when you're by yourself, like just in your own home and feeling feelings. And what it means to be connected to self when you're out in the world walking through the grocery store or at work or whatnot. And some of that exercise really talks about just the idea that your body is always sending you some sort of signal. Some sort, yes. And some of them are superficial signals, we'll call them, but I'm hot, I'm cold, I'm hungry. These type of very basic animal instinct signals. But some of those signals are emotional signals. I'm sad, I'm depressed, I'm scared, I'm safe, I'm happy, I'm joyful, I'm excited, I'm nervous. And the signal is just there for you to be aware of. And sometimes we don't even get that far. We're so busy tending to other people that we're ignoring what signals are showing up for us. And maybe a signal is saying, hey, I'm scared. As we're getting into an Uber, I'm. I'm scared. Right. And we ignore it. And then we get into the Uber anyway. Which is fine. It's fine. But it's just an inkling. It's just an awareness exercise. Like, hey, what. What made you nervous? Maybe you think back, what made. What made me nervous? Why was I. Did I check the license plate? Did the person driving somehow make me feel a certain way? Did I feel like I left my keys? You know, did I not check around and see if I was ready to get in this Uber, this person's car? Just normal stuff like this. The idea of that exercise is really just to let yourself know one Your body's always sending you some sort of signal. Two, are you aware of it? Can you connect with it privately, eyes closed or. And publicly, eyes open, while other people are also connecting? And so this is this. This game, this awareness game. If we take that. That whole thing, I promise one of these days I'll stop talking, Logan. Okay.
Logan Kim: No, I love it. Keep talking.
Shannon Stott: If we take that awareness game and we put it. And I'm teaching just a basic level one improv workshop, we'll play that game and we'll talk a little bit about the awareness. But what we'll do then is, okay, let's jump into scene work. And in improv, you usually place your. Not your students, but the players, let's call them, or the actors on different sides of the stage, opposite sides of the stage. And what you'll see is just depending on the scene, the scene will be. Oh, it'll be on a boat, on a river, right? And we'll say that, okay, this scene takes place on a boat on a river when you're ready. And you'll see, See, players on the side do this thing where they will take a step almost onto stage, and then they'll step back or they'll take a. And then they'll step out, or they won't do anything at all. And they'll sort of just look at each other. You can see it in their face, their eyes sort of like looking around. And their bodies are nervous. And usually when I do this exercise, I just stop right there. I can see it. Facilitator. I can see what's happening. And so I'll stop right there and we'll talk about it and I'll ask, what's happening? Oh, I had an idea, but it looked like, you know, so and so had an idea, so I didn't want to step on their toes. Okay, well, I had an idea, but I felt like it was stupid and it didn't have anything to do with rivers or boats. Oh, okay. And so you'll. You'll see all of these comments. You'll hear these comments, and then we'll go back to. Okay, were you aware of your body? Like, what is. It's the same. It's exactly the same thing. What is happening in your body? These things. Oh, I was afraid to do such and such. My body's sending me a signal. Okay, well, what. How do we move through that? How do we talk through ourselves? How do we play with others? How do we trust? So this. We're just scraping the surface of the things of the ways, really, that improv can just bring awareness to ourselves. Really. That's what I'm looking for for everyone. I want you to be aware. I want you to be connected. So that's one game that we played. We also played another one. But let's talk. We'll chat a little bit through, and then maybe we'll talk about the other one.
Logan Kim: No, it's great. It's great. And it's. It is reminding me of some of the other games we played where. How do we make choices when everyone else is making choices? How do we make our own choices? And that just brought me back to that. That exercise also. That game.
Shannon Stott: Yeah, we did a. Where you stand. We did this clapping game. And so the idea is you stand in front of your partner, both of you clap, and both of you have four choices. You can throw your hands up to one side, to the other side, or down, and then. And that's what you do. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You throw your hands either direction, and then you clap again. And so there's this rhythm that ensues. Clap throw, clap throw, clap throw. And we play that game, and when we debrief, it's always very interesting to see and to hear what people have to say. People say things like, oh, I would clap, and I would just wait for my partner to choose, and I would just choose that direction with them, or I wouldn't even know what to do. I felt so nervous that my hands would go out completely in a direction that wasn't even given to me, which is also why. But you played that game, so. Yeah, your turn. You say what came up for you there?
Logan Kim: Yeah, no, I had a lot of fun playing that game. I still play that game sometimes. Just one of the other many things that I took from your workshops into outside of no other life, maybe we'll call it. But I remember the joy of matching up. It was always so fun to find that we've made the same choice. I'm remembering even in our debrief that I had kind of a little slip, and I called it the right choice. And I caught myself because it felt so contrary to kind of the message of the whole game, which was to make the. The right choice for you, whether it's the choice somebody else is making. But it felt. I remember feeling like we're doing it right. And I remember when I noticed, like, oh, we're on a pattern. It was so seductive to keep following the pattern, to keep making the same choice. And another thing I remember is like what you said, throwing my arms at some point, losing the beat, doing something that wasn't even one of the options. And how it just kept going because there were so many. There were a few different pairs of us all going at the same time and noticing the initial frustration, like, oh, I fucked it up, or I was supposed to clap and I didn't, or I missed mine, or I didn't do the thing. And then after it happened a few times, just noticing, it's okay. It's okay not to be perfect. It's okay to mess up. It's okay to get lost a little bit. Things keep going. And at the end of. At the end of it all, it wasn't that big of a deal.
Creating Safe Spaces Through Performance
Shannon Stott: That's it. That, that. That right there is the. Is the key. At the end of it all, it's really not that big of a deal. The stakes are so low. And going all the way back to sort of the beginning of our conversation when we were talking about bringing things out of no other fest, bringing certain feelings, it is really difficult for us to imagine that stakes are low. Like, even in my own personal life right now, gosh, we're dealing with some. We're dealing with some family, medical emergencies right now, we're dealing with just tons of uncertainty. Uncertainty in life, lots of people are dealing with tons of uncertainty. And it's very difficult to tell somebody or even tell myself, like, Shannon, the stakes are low. Like it does. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. That message, that feeling is like. Feels so, so slap in the face, right? Because it's not true. Like, my whole body, my whole mind really wants to fight and say no, this is truly life and death. Like, I truly. We're dealing with these. With these things. And I. I have to. I have to. And this is the. That, that, that Shannon, truly, in this, in this moment, you're talking to Logan, you're having a podcast time. You're enjoying having memory about no other fast. And. And this is the moment that you're in, and these stakes are low. These stakes right here, this moment is low. And most of the moments that we have are actually low stakes. At the end of the day, this moment that we're in isn't gonna do too much. There are many moments that, okay, we have to make a decision or we have to. We have to get on this plane or we have to run for this thing. But those moments really aren't the majority of our moments. But because minds tell us, like you, you can't actually be. You can't live in this moment. You have to live in a future moment. You've got. And. And not only do you have to live in a future moment, but your past moments are going to affect your future moments. So you're never really living right here in the actual moment that are low stakes. You're creating these moments for yourself and remembering these moments. And that feel like suddenly now my body is in a state of fight flight. Fawn. Right, but the game that we're playing, this clapping game, Right. Then that's why we do it. One, we make a choice. Two, we make a choice in this moment. It doesn't matter. I clapped. I went left. I'm going to clap and go left again. Who cares? It's going to be totally fine. And if we can remember, if I. If I, Shannon, even can just remember a little piece of that. Like, I'm. Like you said, Logan, I had fun. I laughed. I was enjoying myself. I was enjoying my partner's presence. Just remember. Okay. Okay. Let's see. Right this second, if I take a breath and I clap right? I clap and I look around. What. What's happening right this second? Is it life or death? No. No, it's not. I just need to get through this moment, and then the next moment. This clap and this choice. This clap and this choice and this clap and this choice. And I just need to make it through those moments. And improv, or these games really help us remember that it's possible. That it's possible to be right. Right here. Presence is what we're getting at, along with many other things, but presence is one of them.
Logan Kim: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I also don't want to pass over that you shared something kind of personal and kind of vulnerable. And, Shannon, I'm really sorry to hear that you and your family are going through that right now.
How Improv Builds Emotional Intelligence & Resilience
Shannon Stott: Thank you. Thank you, Logan. Yeah, it is. It's very. I teach improv so much. I teach improv so much. And it's a part of my life that I often. It's a gift to others, and I have been finding myself truly, like, oh, oh, this is. I always do this. Like, I'm always teaching this, like, as in the moment, in this. In this time, like, oh, right. This is that lesson that I always tell people. Like, oh, be present. Okay, all right. Or this is that lesson that I. I'm always saying it, but I'm never. Not that I'm never living it, but, like, I am now really present in it and what it means to what it means to. To play what it means to bring joy and laughter and spontaneity and creativity to a moment that feels like maybe it doesn't deserve spontaneity and creativity and joy, but really, we all deserve spontaneity and creativity and joy, period.
Logan Kim: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it is not every decision is life or death. Some are. And those seem to always, for me at least, bring that lens of perspective of the things that we have, this weird human tendency to feel like a lot of things are about survival.
Shannon Stott: Yes.
Logan Kim: And a lot of them are not.
Using Play to Reconnect with the Present Moment
Shannon Stott: Oh, no. And yeah. To even shift. So you were talking about just play, being present, making a choice while other people are making choices in the moment of that particular game. On the flip side, in improv, when we're doing that, that's what makes joy. Right. That's what makes a scene funny. I'm gonna make this scene. I'm gonna make this choice. I'm gonna pick this apple from this tree, and your partner is going to make a completely different choice. But you both are gonna live in the world together. And that little. That synopsis is what's happening in the world at all times. Right? Improv on and off the stage. Right off the stage. It's happening. I'm making a choice, and I think that the world is going to respond because I made a choice. And now the universe is going to make its own diggity dang choice. It's going to make its own choice. And we. I have to continue to make choices while whoever it is, family members, friends, relationships, they're also making choices. And we're still living together on the planet. Right. And it's. I mean, without being like me or maybe with being we. It is what makes living fun. It's what makes it fun and interesting. Scary and sad, but also fun and lively and interesting.
Logan Kim: Yeah. It'd be a little bit boring if it was all scripted. Totally. I know.
Shannon Stott: Yeah.
Logan Kim: Yeah. Shannon, you know, I can tell that there you care so much about this, and you speak with a lot of passion. Would you be open to sharing a little bit about how you became so invested in this kind of work? What the path was like in getting into this?
Shannon Stott: Yes. So let's see. Really, all of this came from moving. So I moved a lot as a young adult and just around the world. Around the world. And I was picking up that everywhere I went, I suddenly would have to create a new world for myself. Right. I would have to let the world influence me. What are the. What are the cultures here? What's the food? What's the language? What do the people wear? What does school look like? What does it look like? What does it mean to look somebody in the eye versus not look somebody in the eye? What does it mean to touch someone, to shake their hand versus not shake their hand, hug somebody, speak loudly? All. All social cues, right? How does it mean to be intelligent? What does it mean to be black? What does it mean to be a woman? What does it mean? What does any of this mean in this particular culture versus another particular culture and having to do that over actually long periods of time, right? So when I would move, I would live in that spot. So I got a year to adjust, and then I moved to Richmond, Virginia, and I started taking classes, improv classes for fun. And I recognized that really what is happening on an improv stage is that thing that, oh, who am I? Who are these people? What is this environment? What are the rules here? And you're doing all of those things in seconds. You're just making all of those connections in seconds. And I was such a. I'm such a nerdy. Nerd. Nerd, baby. Logan. I'm a nerd. I would tell people. I would tell other improvisers. You don't realize that you're, like, creating an entire universe. Like, this is. Isn't that amazing that you can do that? And people really were just like, no, I. We're just playing a game. You're. You. You're building a culture really, truly from the ground up, and then you're asking other people and inviting other people to play. Play in the culture that you built, right? And it doesn't matter. Okay, now we're giraffes at a cafe. Cool. What does that mean? How tall is the ceiling? How. Like, where. What do giraffe lattes look like? Like what. What's in the milk? What do you wear if you're a giraffe in a cafe, you know, and if you are a giraffe in a cafe, are there. Is it just giraffes? Are we all giraffes? Are. We are rhinoceroses here? Are there people here? So I know, because I'll get really excited.
Logan Kim: I know. You had me wondering, what are we paying with? Do we pay at all?
The Role of Vulnerability in Personal Growth
Shannon Stott: Yes, yes, yes. Right? It's so fun. Like, it's a whole. It's a whole world. And even that. That idea, like, what are we paying with? You get to decide, you know, you get to come into. I've created this giraffe cafe, and Logan gets To come in and pay with eucalyptus leaves.
Logan Kim: Oh, great.
Shannon Stott: Now we know, like, we're paying with eucalyptus leaves. This. I mean, it's been years that obviously I get way excited to this day. But one, if I am vulnerable enough to open myself up to this strange idea of I'm in a giraffe cafe, and then you can see my vulnerability, and you can say, oh, I'm really excited to play with you in that world. Let's pay with eucalyptus leaves. And someone else builds on top of that. And someone else builds on top of that. And really what we're doing is saying, yes, here. Here it is. I hate saying it. Yes.
Logan Kim: And I hear that's an important part of improv.
Shannon Stott: Yes, it is. But people get it. People get confused as to how to use it. But in this particular situation, it's really important, especially for this conversation. When I say, I am a giraffe, I could also be saying, I am a lesbian. Okay, great. Now. Now I am vulnerable. I've opened up my world to you. That mean. And you get to say, oh, I pay with eucalyptus leaves. But what you're actually saying is, oh, then if that is who you are, I use the term they them, or whatever it is she. That however you want to be addressed, I'm going to use that language. Right. So I hope I've been vulnerable, I'm opening up my world. And now you're being vulnerable. You're saying, yes, and I'm going to respect the thing that you just laid down and move forward with that. And then other people can do that as well. And then we can do it for other people. And now it's not that we're only playing with or understand the play of giraffes in a cafe. We also understand what it means to wear a hijab. Right?
Logan Kim: Yeah.
Shannon Stott: And walk down the street and make space for this culture. And that person also understands what it means to make space for my culture. Right. I know what it means to be a giraffe. And you know what it means to be a koala. Great. We're still sitting in this cafe. So for me, your question was, how did I get into it? Because I had lived in different cultures, because I had seen different ways of living and interacting. It really hit home that building worlds on the spot is more than just comedy. It truly can cross bridges. We can really communicate with each other. We can really learn to communicate with each other in a way that's fun, in a way that is low stakes. Right. It's a game. It's a Facade. Ooh, this is so fun. It's a game. But really we're learning about each other, and most importantly, we're really learning about ourselves. Who if I can be vulnerable enough to get on stage and put my hand in the air and talk like a giraffe, if I can really be vulnerable enough to do that. Where did that even come from? Who am I inside that wants to be big, that wants to be tall, that wants to be outlandish, that wants to. That wants to interact in this way? Who am I truly like? Who is Shannon who wants to do this thing? Now we're searching ourselves and simultaneously making space for other people to search them themselves and simultaneously making space for both of us to accept each other in a world that we've created together. And that's like, that's. That's saving the planet, Logan.
Logan Kim: That is. We need more of that. We need more of that. How can we get you to all around the world?
Shannon Stott: I am everywhere. I'm trying. Well, you know, and I. Like I said, you introduced me. I've been, I've been.
Logan Kim: That's true.
Shannon Stott: And it is, you know, it's the. I'm sure for I. Or rather, how about. I wonder if when you talk about therapy to people who are the, like, cross armed, like therapy.
Logan Kim: they're out there.
Low-Stakes Improvisation for Real-Life Change
Shannon Stott: Yes. Sometimes it's hard to not even convince because you're not trying to convince people, but you're trying to like, show them. Not even convince them, but just show them that there are other ways to communicate with themselves, to find out about themselves. Yeah.
Logan Kim: Yeah.
Shannon Stott: So, yes, I, you know, I'm out there. I'm out there. Just. I just keep doing podcasts, Logan. I keep doing them.
Logan Kim: I know we need the right people, the right people to be listening.
Shannon Stott: Yes.
Logan Kim: But that's. I'm just marinating in it, I guess, is that you took me from this giraffe cafe to actually a really, really powerful message. And that. I know there was a part of you almost cringing having to say the yes and part, but I love that it really does include like the yes is acceptance.
Shannon Stott: Yes.
Therapy & Improv: Unexpected Siblings in the Healing Arts
Logan Kim: Of other people's expression of their spontaneity, of their identity, of their imagination, of their creativity, of their play, all of those things. And I love that. And it also made me reflect on. I mean, I know you said there's on and off stage. This is not just in improv or formal improv. We're always improvising. Right. Most of the time. And made me think of being a therapist and a lot of Therapy is improv. I don't know what my client is going to come in and say. And when they say the thing, I'll say something. And I don't know what they're going to say next, and they don't know what I'm going to say. And we're kind of riffing off of each other. And there's a level of excitement at that sometimes. Kind of like how I came into today to this podcast is a level of nervousness, not knowing, of uncertainty, and then there's this level of unboundedness of we could do anything. We could say anything. Right. I could say pistachios next. And I did. I guess I did.
Shannon Stott: You did? Yes. It's. Yeah. Therapy is conversation in general. Is. Is that. And listen. Listening is that. That's another thing. We really. We really talk about listening and trying to stay behind the person when someone is talking instead of like, oh, I see where you're going. I just. I know exactly. And I. You have to be so trained as a therapist. You have to be so trained in not assuming what someone is going to say, like how they're going to end their whole sentence. Right. Because. Right. They could be talking, and then at the end, like, and pistachio. And pistachio. And, you know, you're like, oh, I. I had a thing to say in my head, and now I have nothing. Because you've said that. Because I haven't been listening. Right. So, yes, there's their therapy. When I teach. When I teach and I do these workshops, it often feels. It feels a lot. That's why we connected.
Logan Kim: Right.
Shannon Stott: It feels a lot like therapy. And I am not a therapist. Put it, I am not a trained therapist, but I am a trained listener. And it can feel so vulnerable for people to come to themselves in these ways just because, you know, you're moving through life. Like you said, we're always sort. We're always sort of improvising, and you're moving through life, and you don't even sort of like the signals. You don't even. You're not aware sometimes of the signals your body's giving you or the things that you're saying. You're just sort of like, just sort of following sort of a script. Right. Sort of like, I get up in the morning and brush my teeth, and I, you know, and. And my day is probably gonna go like the same thing that happens every day, Pinky. But. But that is also not being present. We're really. That's the other part about what you do is the presence that it takes. You have to consistently and constantly be right there with your client, right. Present with what they're saying in that moment even. And you have to let go of what they said before. Right. Just have to sort of let it loot, hold it lightly, because right now, they're the person that they are in front of you.
Logan Kim: So, yeah. Yeah.
From Performance to Presence: Embodying the Practice
Shannon Stott: What you do is awesome. Logan, thank you for being a therapist.
Logan Kim: I like being a therapist, so it's my pleasure, and I really appreciate you for doing what you do. I think that you made that disclaimer that you're not a therapist, but I can tell that you're doing a lot of healing work. It's not just in therapy, and it's not just with therapists that healing happens. So I think it's so important that that's brought into a variety of spaces. And so that's why I have so much admiration and respect for the ways that you bring that to people. You brought that to me at the Know Other Fest. And like I said, I still carry a lot of that with me, and it felt so important. And so I'm so appreciative to be here today and debrief about some of that and learn a little bit more. And I know that there is probably so much more that we could say about this and share forever. And I also know that Shannon is in Texas, I think so, at a different time zone. So I'm also mindful not to keep you too late forever.
Shannon Stott: I have to eat home dinner at some point, you know, but that's.
Logan Kim: Please do.
Shannon Stott: That's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Yeah.
Logan Kim: Thank you.
Shannon Stott: Thanks for having me. Thanks for. Thanks for chatting with me and being interested. This stuff is so. It is definitely my passion. It is definitely my passion. The idea that we can heal, we can heal. We can start on healing, and we can connect with each other, and we can connect with self. For me, connecting with self can be so scary. I had a. I had a. A client. I had a student. We were. We're in this. We're doing improv. We're doing the thing. I asked her. It's like, hey, I. I really need you to release what you're doing and connect with yourself. I need to see you on stage and said, I didn't come to do. I didn't come to improv to be myself. And I was like, ha, ha ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
Logan Kim: I know. I felt myself tightening up when you said that part it's really.
Shannon Stott: It's. And many people don't. Right? Many people don't. That's not what they're on stage for. They're. What they say is they're here to play. They're here to release reality and do something else. But what. It's too bad because you're gonna bring it on stage anyway.
Logan Kim: That's what I was thinking. Do we ever really stop being ourselves?
Shannon Stott: No. No.
Logan Kim: Right. Maybe versions of ourselves, but yes.
Improv as a Path to Self-Discovery & Transformation
Shannon Stott: Right. So, yeah. So for me, what's important there is that it's possible. How about that? That it's possible to connect with yourself. It's okay. You don't want to be yourself right now. At some point, you're good. And this is for everybody. At some point, you're gonna have to face yourself. You might not be in my class right now. Right. You can go ahead and be a duck quack all you want, but at some point, you're gonna look in the mirror and you're gonna wonder, huh, interesting that I'm a duck. I am a duck. I am in my heart, what makes me a duck. And you'll have to face your duck self. Your duck self.
Logan Kim: You know, I really agree. It's reminding me of this quote. I forget who said it. I'll have to. Maybe Jesse can add this in later, but it was. You have to get comfortable with who you are, because who you are may be all you're ever gonna be. Which maybe sounds initially negative, but we are who we are.
Shannon Stott: Yeah, we are.
Logan Kim: We are.
Shannon Stott: Yes, that's right. You've got to. You've got to close us out, because I'll just find.
Logan Kim: I know. Okay. Do you have any closing. Closing thoughts?
Shannon Stott: Closing thoughts? Yeah, the closing thoughts are, you can connect. You can connect with yourself. You're not as scary as you think. You know, the depths of. You aren't as scary as you think. And you can connect with yourself in play. Also, all the stuff that you're probably going to say, like, look me up, just reach out, say hi. Yes.
Logan Kim: Yes. If you want to connect with Shannon or learn more about this amazing work that she does, you can find her on Instagram at Shannon Stott Improv, and also find her company, Improv On and Off the Stage. Does that sound right?
Shannon Stott: Sounds perfectly right.
Logan Kim: Where else can folks find you?
Shannon Stott: You can also find me just online on and off the stage. And that's the website? Yes, that's the website, and those are the spots. Find me on IG. You can find me on, you know, LinkedIn and all of that. If you're looking for me, you can find me. S T O T T is my last name.
Logan Kim: I might send you a LinkedIn connection request.
Shannon Stott: I would love that. Okay. I love all. I love all of it. And I'll always reach out. I love. People have reached out to me in so many ways. Just like from the festival, from just all sorts of. Hey, I. I don't. I don't know you. You. You seem nice. So I'm reaching out. You said I could reach out, so I am. I'm like, yes, do that.
Logan Kim: I know you told me I could reach out and I did. And here we are. Thank you for being such an inviting person and for doing all this. I'm hoping that I can participate next year at no other festival. Hopefully I'll see you again then. Hopefully we'll keep in touch and talk even before that.
Shannon Stott: Yes, please.
Podcast Host/Narrator: Today's episode is bringing you to a few IG accounts to decolonize your feed. We'll include handles in the episode description.
Queer Black Women Alliance ATX is a safe haven for queer Black women. An account focused on fostering community, promoting wellness and championing entrepreneurship and higher education. Josie Klatt she they is an activist, speaker, comedian and drag performer performing under the name Vivica C. Cox. She is known for her work in non profit leadership, fundraising and advocacy for LGBTQ communities, especially bipoc and transgender individuals and is committed to telling the stories of LGBTQ people being silenced today.
Nika Cherelle they/them is a sex health coach and the host of the IT Cast Real Talk on Sex, a sex wellness podcast designed to fight against the taboo and shame surrounding sexual they work to increase diversity in conversations about sex, making information accessible to all and fostering a consent based framework for human interaction and our community highlight this month is a new therapy group being offered by none other than the one and only Logan Kim.
Beyond the Binary is a supportive therapist led space for transgender, non binary gender expansive and questioning individuals who are seeking a deeper connection with yourself and your community. There's a link to an interest form in the episode description. Check it out. Thanks for listening. Catch you next time. NOTE -- Closed caption brought to you by DeepCast (www.deepcast.fm and www.deepcast.pro)
Featured therapist speaker:
Logan Kim, is a queer, non-binary, Asian-American Associate Marriage and Family Therapist. They work with individuals and couples from a relational and social justice-oriented approach. Logan is particularly passionate about their work with queer and trans clients, exploring issues around identity, relationships, and the implications of existing in a cisheteronormative society.
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