On the Intersection of Queer & Latinx
In honor of Hispanic* Heritage Month, we’re highlighting a conversation between Dani Marrufo and Gaby Teresa, who are both queer, Latinx therapists. They speak on this specific intersection of identity and how being queer and Latinx/e/o/a affects the work they do, the clients they see, and just finding a therapist in general.
*Though we are honoring this month, we recognize the problematic nature of the word "Hispanic" and do not use it in any of our content. The origin of the word "Hispanic" refers to people from Spain or Spanish-speaking countries, and thus includes the colonial relationship to Spain. It is also a word enforced by the US census to categorize a wide range of groups. The word "Hispanic is thus not inclusive of the indigenous roots of the Latine community.
quick introductions to dani marrufo, lmft & gaby teresa, lmft
Gaby: This is just a little opportunity for Dani and I to share about queer Latinx therapy and the things that we do together here at Kindman & Co. So let's just start off with introducing ourselves. My name is Gaby Teresa. I am an associate in Marriage and Family Therapist (As of October 2022 Gaby is now a fully licensed marriage and family therapist!). My pronouns are she/her/ella, and I work primarily with Queer BIPOC individuals, I myself identify as lesbian and Latina. So that's my little intersectionality. Hit it Dani.
Dani: My name is Dani, she/her pronouns. I'm a LMFT. So I'm licensed, recently in December woot. I like working with mostly like queer folks, Latinx folks, people who are trying to navigate any type of identity work. And I also love working with grief and loss. So any combination of those things is really exciting for me, even though it can get pretty deep.
Gaby: For real. Working with marginalized folks and being a marginalized person at the same time hits.
Dani: I think holding the same identities as your clients has its advantages and disadvantages for sure.
Gaby: Yeah, definitely. One thing that I think is a really important topic within Latinx queer therapy is intersectionality. Being that, well, I guess we should give a little bit of a rundown of what intersectionality means.
the intersectionality of queer, latinx, and catholic
Gaby: Intersectionality is basically the idea that we all have different things that make us who we are. And not everyone's experience is the same. For instance, Dani and I are both Latina and queer. That does not mean we have the same experience. Because we have different things that make us who we are in other identifiers. My experience is not the same experience as a Black trans woman, and it never will be even if I'm queer. So it's identifying those things. What else do you think is important in that definition, Dani?
Dani: Well, actually, when you're saying that, I forgot to say that I am Mexican and lesbian. So we'll just add that in also. Intersectionality–I think the importance is really just knowing that there's so many intersections, and when we talk about my experience in being queer and Mexican, I feel like it's only fair to bring religion into that, right? I was also raised Catholic, and I know that a lot of, or like, a good majority of Mexican folks are also Catholic. And even if you're not, I think it's just intertwined in our greetings. Like, I mean, adios: to God, right? Like, that's how we say goodbye to each other. Like little sayings that my grandma would always say, definitely rooted in Catholicism. But now I think it's just intertwined in language, even if you're not Catholic.
Gaby: And that brings up a lot of things whether you want it to or not.
Dani: Definitely, I think personally, that's been one of my biggest, I guess, like, challenges in navigating identity is how do I hold a lesbian and Mexican identity and also be raised Catholic. Like, what does that mean for me? Like, how do you hold all of these things together? I don't know, I know that you and I have kind of spoken to that. And that being a challenge at that intersection.
Gaby: Yeah, I was also raised Catholic. That's a toughy. It's a toughy. And I think that the intersectionality of the three of those in particular is really hard to sit with. And most of my Latinx queer clients work with this intersectionality as well. How do we fit in this little confusing place?
Dani: I mean, I think that we're just highlighting that even as therapists, like, we don't have the answer for ourselves, right? And what works for me is maybe not gonna work for you, maybe not gonna work for a client. So I love that we're just talking around this idea of like: Look, here I am. I've been out for, I don't know, I can't even count that fast. Many years. Right? But I still don't have it figured out.
Gaby: And we're still talking about it.
Dani: Yes, definitely. So I don't know. Continue the conversation? Things like this?
what does therapy for exploring intersectional identities look like?
Gaby: Yeah. Another whenever I think about intersectionality, too, I think about "ni de aqui, ni de alla." In the sense, if you're not familiar with it, it translated directly means not from here, but also not from there, which is a lot of what the Chicano population goes through, second generation, first generation. And that those experiences are different too, like we could both head over to Mexico, and we would be considered maybe not Mexican. We would be American. And what is this blend between Mexican American? How do you think that when you're working with your clients?...especially in a marginalized community? How do you both sit with the fact that like, you don't fucking know what to do?
Dani: I feel like it's important to label right? But I think the thing is, I just want to debunk the idea that as therapists, we tell clients what to do. Like, I think we really help the client to pull out what is challenging. What's the feeling there for them when they're holding identities? Or, when they're kind of exploring this piece of them? Because it's totally going to look different for different people, right? So, how can we both acknowledge the identities that we hold and what that means in the room, but also acknowledge that, you know, at the end of the day, this is their space? And I'm there to support them in whatever direction they want to take it? I don't know. I don't know how that sounds for you. Or like, if you take a different [approach]…?
Gaby: No, I think you're right. And I think that something that I tell all my clients in general, is “you're the expert of your own experience.” I will never truly know what it feels like to be you. So, how do we honor the fact, even for those clients that we do share a lot of the same identities, [that] we're still not the same. You and I share a lot of the same ones. And it's like we will, we will never be exactly the same. As much as I want to be just like you, Dani. We need to make space for the fact that we're different. And I think that that is a lot of what therapy is when we're working with the BIPOC community.
Dani: Totally, totally. And I think that especially being in California, what came up for me is like, there's this assumption that we're all Mexican. Right? And I know, like conversations with my wife kind of go there where people just assume that because she's Brown, and you know, she's in LA like, that means that she's Mexican, like not really right? Like she's biracial Mexican, Guatemalan. And so even pulling out like, okay, you identify as Latinx. But what, like, what does that mean for you? Right, like, down to the definition of who you are? Or the exploration of that in detail. So important.
Gaby: Yeah, there's so many different identifiers. And we also can't put those identifiers on other people. I think that's really important too, is letting people introduce themselves the way that they want to be identified. People find it more important to be identified as brown than Latinx. Or maybe they like to be Mexican or Guatemalan or something more specific...
on intersectional labels & identifiers
Dani: I think the terminology is so interesting, though, because even... Like okay, what if you don't want to say Latinx, right? Because I think even that word has been controversial for some right? Even in the queer community. But oh! Hispanic, right? Like, what? Maybe that's how some identify, right? Or Latino, right? Whatever it is. How do you approach just using the terminology that a client wants?
Gaby: That's a good question. I think that, as I'm sitting here with you, I'm kind of putting myself in the room when I first start working with a client. And usually what I do is I introduce myself first. And then I allow the space and talk about the importance of identifiers for some, and then for some people, it doesn't matter. And we have to honor that as well. I have some clients coming in who are/identify as Latinx. And that's not what they want to talk about. Like, yeah, I am this thing, and I'm queer, but that's not what I'm here to talk about. And that's chill too. Like, I can't just put that on people, even if it's something that I get very excited about. So I kind of let people just identify themselves and go from there and see what happens.
Dani: Totally, I love that idea of just letting the client take the lead, though. And it really opens it up for them to use the space how they want. But I also think from the client perspective, right? Like you and I both go to therapy, even though we're therapists, but being on the couch as a client, right? It's kind of different to just sit there and just take the lead in that environment, through that silence, to talk about what you want to. It's almost like you're hoping that they will guide you, but embracing that this is your journey, and you can kind of guide where you want, a therapist will walk with you there. It's really interesting just playing both roles.
the importance of finding a therapist who “gets” it
Gaby: It is yeah, definitely. I'm curious, Is your therapist Latinx?
Dani: She is. And to the point that you were talking to, I very much went on a search for a therapist saying "Look, these are my identities. But what I really wanted to connect with was like Mexican culture, less so about the queer identity stuff." Like for me, that's really been something that I've navigated a lot, and I feel comfortable where I'm at, but I really wanted to add in, like what it is to be Mexican and also navigate the world.
Gaby: I'm so glad you brought that up. Because that's one thing I know that you know. I really, really struggled finding a therapist that "got" me, whatever that means to you. But if you're in the search of looking, Latinx Therapy is a fantastic resource for that. And for me, finding a queer-affirming therapist who was also Latins was really important to me. It was also important to me that they were a woman. That was an intersectionality. For me, that really mattered. And that they spoke Spanish, because a lot of times I like to work in Spanglish. I'm not, I am fluent, but I'm not fantastic at my Spanish. And sometimes there are words that are really important, but I only fit in Spanish. And I gotta say, and I just want them to understand the weight that it has. But I think you brought up a really good point of knowing. Unfortunately, it is so hard to find a therapist for a lot of intersectionalities. Knowing which one is the one that you really want to focus on, if you're struggling to find someone that fits all of the roles that you're looking for. I wasn't able to find a lesbian therapist, but I was able to find a Latinx one who spoke Spanish and was affirming. And she's been great, too. So…
Dani: That's amazing. I'm so glad. You really were searching for someone specific. And I think that you took your time in it. Which I'm glad you were able to do that. But I know that it took you a while.
Gaby: The saddest thing to me is I Googled queer Latinx therapist, and we came up. I was so pissed.
Dani: Like, cool. I'm glad I'm on Google, but I need somebody else.
Gaby: I was like great marketing, but this sucks. I really want that to be a problem that can be fixed. But I also want people to know that it's not a reason to just give up.
Dani: Yeah, I've tried to be my own therapist already, and it just didn't work out for me. No, I think that's super important. But I think it's... like talking about intersectionality, I love that we're just bringing other identities in. But I think privilege in terms of education is such a big factor and money, right? Is such a big factor as to why. When I looked around the classroom when I was going to school, there weren't many people that I can identify with, right? Whether that was being Latinx or queer. And I think even now, that's why one of the reasons I was so excited to get to know you at Kindman & Co. is because we did have shared identities. And I think, as you move up in being a therapist and get closer and closer to being licensed, it was more and more isolating. I found myself surrounded by a lot of white people.
Gaby: Definitely. And it's interesting, like we watch TV and movies and we see the therapist, and it's always a white dude with a clipboard.
Dani: I don't even have a clipboard.
Gaby: I just got one. I used it in session. So, just saying. But like, that's the vision we have. And then we enter these spaces as BIPOC queer women, and we're like, oh, shit, this matters too. And we need a space in it. And it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to sit with the fact that it's not that common.
Dani: Very true. Very true. This was a lot of fun talking to you about these things. I think that the hope is that we'll be able to kind of make this series!
Gaby: I had a lot of fun talking with you. This is just the beginning of the conversation. I really hope that we get to a place where people can just ask some questions too. And we can talk about those too!
Thanks to everyone who has read this far. If you’re reading or listening and you have any things that you want us to write a blog on, or if you have anything that resonated with you, let us know and maybe we can talk/write about that next time.
Here are a few blogs in the meantime about queer, Latinx, BIPOC folx in therapy and in general:
Gaby Teresa is an Associate Marriage and Family Therapist, Latina/mixed raced, social justice-oriented, and exceptionally curious. She works with individuals, intimate relationships, and families. She is passionate about supporting undocumented immigrants, Latinx, & BIPOC folks to explore and unpack the harms of systemic oppression & white supremacy and move towards individual and collective healing from racial trauma.
From a Health at Every Size perspective, Gaby challenges fat phobic narratives and helps people adopt amore loving relationships with their bodies by promoting body diversity and dismantling the “thin ideal.”Overall, Gaby is proud to be another messy human walking alongside you, helping you to build tools and relationships that better support you and ensure that you get your relational needs met.
Dani Marrufo is Latinx, lesbian woman who is passionate about supporting Latinx, BIPOC, and LGBTQIA+ folks. She is constantly navigating the intersections of my queer identity & religion/spirituality and very excited about helping poly and queer-identified partners to feel more secure in their relationships, communicate effectively and compassionately, and bridge any relevant cultural differences to have increased curiosity and enjoyment in their partnership.
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